UU/NU Discussion

Lord Ryu wrote:

Sagechild wrote:

Sagelord Ryuchild wrote:Actually, it's just that you're obviously not going to see usage of Pokemon with poor stats, which is why they're UU/NU.

Even if an XBAWKS HUEG amount of people used Corsola, it'd stay UU, I'm sure.

Because it began in UU and doesn't need to be moved up.

lulz, see?

Things that are changed to UU, maybe, but not original UU's themselves. ^_^

What is your obsession with the face ^_^ lately anyway?

I just like random faces at random times.

Sagechild wrote:^That's quite the idealogical way to put it.

A lot of it is still based on stats, and move-pools.

OU's are OU because they work.

BL's are way harder to seperate from OU's. Some can perform amazingly in OU. Some re just being kept out of UU.

and UU's are usually UU because of inferior stats, or horrid move-pools.

It's not "idealogical", it's how Smogon decides the tiers. Think I made it up? o_0

By the way, about your question...if enough people used Corsola (and WON) then yes, it would become OU. However, people would need to be using it on Shoddy Battle since that's where Smogon gets their usage statistics (which are the basis for the tiers).

However, they go by weighed usage which means that Pokemon used by players with a higher ranking would "count" more. The Pokemon also must have been sent out at least once which means simply having it on your team isn't enough.

Actually, as a joke, many high-ranked players were using Sunkern in April to raise it's usage :p.

Don't debate with me on topics you haven't researched >_>. Pokemon tiers are different than say, Smash Bros. tiers.

Lord Ryu wrote:Actually, it's just that you're obviously not going to see usage of Pokemon with poor stats, which is why they're UU/NU.

Well, Muk has neither poor stats nor a horrid movepool (quite the opposite, actually), which was why I was wondering why people don't use it.....

That Curse Muk with Mean Look is pretty much the Umbreon of UU...hell, it could be the Umbreon of OU if it wanted to.

There are some Pokemon that were placed in UU a while ago, and were never over-centralizing enough to be placed into BL. Such as Walrein and Relicanth.

Ninja wrote:

Lord Ryu wrote:Actually, it's just that you're obviously not going to see usage of Pokemon with poor stats, which is why they're UU/NU.

Well, Muk has neither poor stats nor a horrid movepool (quite the opposite, actually), which was why I was wondering why people don't use it.....

That Curse Muk with Mean Look is pretty much the Umbreon of UU...hell, it could be the Umbreon of OU if it wanted to.

No.

The ever present Earthquake is a pretty good way to end Muk.

He doesn't have a good STAB attack, and sorely wishes he had more moveslots.

I'm pretty sure that'll prevent him from being OU for fo'eva.

Plus, Muk's ugly.

Sagechild wrote:

Ninja wrote:

Lord Ryu wrote:Actually, it's just that you're obviously not going to see usage of Pokemon with poor stats, which is why they're UU/NU.

Well, Muk has neither poor stats nor a horrid movepool (quite the opposite, actually), which was why I was wondering why people don't use it.....

That Curse Muk with Mean Look is pretty much the Umbreon of UU...hell, it could be the Umbreon of OU if it wanted to.

No.

The ever present Earthquake is a pretty good way to end Muk.

He doesn't have a good STAB attack, and sorely wishes he had more moveslots.

I'm pretty sure that'll prevent him from being OU for fo'eva.

Plus, Muk's ugly.

He doesn't have a good STAB attack? Sorry, that made me laugh.

Doubtless Muk can find a way around the Earthquake weakness. Switching to a Levitator/Flying type is the easier choice, along with the Substituting Muk that I'm about to put up. Just use Sub on the turn that your opponent switches to a poke with EQ. The Mean Looking Curse Muk is another way to avoid EQ switch-ins.

Ninja wrote:

Sagechild wrote:

Ninja wrote:

Lord Ryu wrote:Actually, it's just that you're obviously not going to see usage of Pokemon with poor stats, which is why they're UU/NU.

Well, Muk has neither poor stats nor a horrid movepool (quite the opposite, actually), which was why I was wondering why people don't use it.....

That Curse Muk with Mean Look is pretty much the Umbreon of UU...hell, it could be the Umbreon of OU if it wanted to.

No.

The ever present Earthquake is a pretty good way to end Muk.

He doesn't have a good STAB attack, and sorely wishes he had more moveslots.

I'm pretty sure that'll prevent him from being OU for fo'eva.

Plus, Muk's ugly.

He doesn't have a good STAB attack? Sorry, that made me laugh.

Doubtless Muk can find a way around the Earthquake weakness. Switching to a Levitator/Flying type is the easier choice, along with the Substituting Muk that I'm about to put up. Just use Sub on the turn that your opponent switches to a poke with EQ. The Mean Looking Curse Muk is another way to avoid EQ switch-ins.

Der.

Not STAB attack *facepalm*

I meant, good STAB in general. (poison is horrible)

and if Muk has to swtich out, he's been countered.

And the Mean Look/Curse just gets back to the original move slot issue.

mean look sucks in a general sense. it only works for walls. better to just Curse/Sub while holding black sludge

Sasami wrote:Pokemon tiers are different than say, Smash Bros. tiers.

talk to me about those.

Kokingpin wrote:

Sasami wrote:Pokemon tiers are different than say, Smash Bros. tiers.

talk to me about those.

tires don exits

Tiers are for quiers.

Or something like that/

Choice Specs Illumise
Tinted Lens Ability
Quiet Nature
-Bug Buzz
-Water Pulse
-Giga Drain
-HP Rock
252 HP, 252 SP.Atk, 4 Sp.Def

*Gasp!* Choice Specs Illumise with Tinted Lens Ability! =D Simple. Use a move that gets a Super Effective against a pokemon and if your opponent sends out a pokemon with a resistance to the move you used, then just use it again, Tinted Lens takes care of it. This moveset has Giga Drain for HP recovery, Water Pulse for possible confusion, Bug Buzz for STAB & possible S.Def lowering and HP Rock for Coverage of Birds and other bugs. Mess around with the moveset if you like. Works perfectly with Trick Room up and even better with Baton Passed stat boosts *coughSolrockcough*




Trick Room Baton Pass Solrock @F-Sash/Leftovers
Levitate Ability
Brave Nature
-Trick Room
-Calm Mind/Cosmic Power
-Substitute/Will-O-Wisp/Toxic
-Baton Pass
252 HP, 200 Def, 56 Sp.Def

Trick room on the first turn, then you can Sub up/handicap your opponent if possible or just set up with CMs or CPs, depending on what you want to B-Pass to. Then Baton Pass when the time is right and either sweep or have an amazing wall. Articuno can be a beastly wall or great wall sweeper with passed Cosmic Powers.

*Revives thread*



Ledian Passer @F-sash
Timid/Jolly Nature
Early Bird Ability
-Encore
-Agility
-Swords Dance
-Baton Pass
252 Speed, 252 S.Def, 4 HP

First and foremost, with Ledian, WATCH OUT FOR STEALTH ROCK. It ruins your sash and gives you 50% damage. Ouch. Claydol/Hitmontop/Starmie Spinner anyone?

The idea here is to switch in when your opponent is using a move that has little effect on Ledian and then Encore. It might be a stat boosting move, a weather move, a fighting or grass special type move (Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, Energy Ball, Solarbeam, etc), whatever. You then Agility and SD to your liking and pass to a pokemon. Simple. Watch out for Hazers/Phazers, though.

I don't believe that you can switch out of an encore, but I'm probably wrong, so the sash will help you survive if there is no sand or hail present.



Simple Bibarel (Pass Receiver)@F-sash
Adamant Nature
Simple Ability
-Waterfall
-Superpower
-Return
-Pluck/(Insert Move here)
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spd

A very good candidate to pass to, considering Simple DOUBLES the effect of stat boosts. A pass from the Ledian above would be equal to TWO agilities and SD's.

Barring priority moves and weather, focus sash helps bibarel stay alive. It can pretty much OHKO anything after receiving one SD from ledian, with a few exceptions, but two SD's in Ledian terms can spell trouble for any opponent. Watch out for Mach Punch especially, and Stealth Rock/Entry Hazards. Again, GET A SPINNER. Sandslash also works as a great defensive wall-spinner, and can set up SR on your opponent as well.

Choice band/scarf are also options, but you run the risk of dying on the Pass-in. Then again, if you're passing from Ledian then the only real types you have to be wary of are electric types. Almost no one will use Grass or Fighting moves on Ledian because of the x.25 effect. However, Bibarel with two/three SD equivalents and choice band hardly needs to worry about the move, seeing as Pluck/(Insert Move) may very well affect every pokemon.

Did I mention that a similar pass strategy of mine to Bibarel using Scizor swept Zack's entire team? =3

Carnivine @Leftovers
-Power Whip
-Stockpile
-Leech Seed
-Sleep Powder
Levitate, Impish
252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Atk

Would you believe that this has been working out very well for me? Made a couple people on Shoddy DC. Surprisingly quick, too. Outran a Gyarados without any DD's. =O

Ninja wrote:*Revives thread*



Ledian Passer @F-sash
Timid/Jolly Nature
Early Bird Ability
-Encore
-Agility
-Swords Dance
-Baton Pass
252 Speed, 252 S.Def, 4 HP

First and foremost, with Ledian, WATCH OUT FOR STEALTH ROCK. It ruins your sash and gives you 50% damage. Ouch. Claydol/Hitmontop/Starmie Spinner anyone?

The idea here is to switch in when your opponent is using a move that has little effect on Ledian and then Encore. It might be a stat boosting move, a weather move, a fighting or grass special type move (Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, Energy Ball, Solarbeam, etc), whatever. You then Agility and SD to your liking and pass to a pokemon. Simple. Watch out for Hazers/Phazers, though.

I don't believe that you can switch out of an encore, but I'm probably wrong, so the sash will help you survive if there is no sand or hail present.



Simple Bibarel (Pass Receiver)@F-sash
Adamant Nature
Simple Ability
-Waterfall
-Superpower
-Return
-Pluck/(Insert Move here)
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spd

A very good candidate to pass to, considering Simple DOUBLES the effect of stat boosts. A pass from the Ledian above would be equal to TWO agilities and SD's.

Barring priority moves and weather, focus sash helps bibarel stay alive. It can pretty much OHKO anything after receiving one SD from ledian, with a few exceptions, but two SD's in Ledian terms can spell trouble for any opponent. Watch out for Mach Punch especially, and Stealth Rock/Entry Hazards. Again, GET A SPINNER. Sandslash also works as a great defensive wall-spinner, and can set up SR on your opponent as well.

Choice band/scarf are also options, but you run the risk of dying on the Pass-in. Then again, if you're passing from Ledian then the only real types you have to be wary of are electric types. Almost no one will use Grass or Fighting moves on Ledian because of the x.25 effect. However, Bibarel with two/three SD equivalents and choice band hardly needs to worry about the move, seeing as Pluck/(Insert Move) may very well affect every pokemon.

Did I mention that a similar pass strategy of mine to Bibarel using Scizor swept Zack's entire team? =3

And that it will never, ever, ever, ever work again, as well as you got supr flinchax?

^_^

No johns

Lord Ryu wrote:No johns

Not stating the full sitimation is just as bad.

I dun care

Nidoqueen @Leftovers
-Attract
-Body Slam
-Earthquake
-Roar
Rivalry, Impish
252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Atk

This is actually the Nidoqueen from my NU/UU team. Her name is Mamma, and she's a beast. It's actually sorta based on an old set hardly anyone remembers called "Haxray." Haxray ran Rivalry for power boosts against same-gender Pokemon, and Attract to balance things out against opposite-gender Pokemon. Since Nidoqueen's defensive stats are superior to its offensive stats anyway, why not go for it? It's been working out very well for me so far, especially with the magical Parahax granted by Body Slam. Roar helps a great deal against anything that likes to set up with Subs or stat boosts.

You could also substitute Body Slam or EQ for something like Stone Edge or Hammer Arm, but I wouldn't recommend getting rid of Body Slam, considering that Parahax chance, and EQ's good STAB. You get walled by Rotom, but I can't think of one that doesn't run TrickSpecs/Scarf, so you wouldn't wanna stay in, anyway.

The best part about Nidoqueen as a wall? FUCK TOXIC. =P

Ariados @Choice Band
-Sucker Punch
-Pursuit
-Poison Jab
-Bug Bite/Night Shade
Insomnia, Adamant
252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP

I first developed this just as something to keep Celebi at bay (used to be where Parasect was in my siggy) until I was in a better position to deal with the little nymph, but believe it or not, if used properly, this actually works very well in a variety of situations. With a decent amount of skill, and a good knowledge of your opponent's team, you can really fuck someone up. This really acts best as a revenge killer and a Hypnosis switch in. Poison Jab actually 2HKO's bulky Vaporeon and Speed Deoxys. o_o;

Bug Bite's the strongest Bug attack Ariados gets (unless Pin Missile somehow gets five hits), and works out all right if the target happens to have a berry, since it doubles the moves power. I could have sworn Ariados got X-Scissor, too... Anyway, the other option, Night Shade, might let you better deal with things that try to wall you or put up Subs or somethin', expecting that Sucker Punch. Just wear 'em down. It's sad, though, when a Pokemon has to turn to Night Shade simply for lack of a better option... Return, too, unless it just has a really good Return with STAB or something...

Steel types say "Fuck you" the loudest.

So, if this is so great, why did I replace it with Parasect? It fills in a niche. If it didn't have something I needed, I'd still be using Ariados. I bet Shade could tell you all about Rihanna. >>



Hariyama @Flame Orb/Toxic Orb
-Fake Out
-Fling
-Bullet Punch
-Close Combat
Guts, Adamant
252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Def

Apparently, I've never posted Hariyama before... I've had this set in mind for a long time now, too... ANYWAY.

So, this is a Guts Hariyama running Fake Out in place of the usual Protect (why not?). You Fake Out to let the chosen Orb pop, and sweep with Close Combat and/or Bullet Punch (mostly just for Sash and other stragglers). Fling works well with either Orb, as it's gonna either Burn or Toxic based on which you use. Flame Orb you can Fling to cripple a physical sweeper, and Toxic Orb deals less damage for the first three turns and can be Flung at walls like Slowbro which you otherwise might have problems dealing with.

Fake Out+Priority is WONDERFUL for revenge kills. Free Hits Persian practically does it all the time, being such a speed demon with U-Turn and all... This set just really takes advantage of Fake Out. *shrug*



Crawdaunt @Choice Band
-Crunch
-X-Scissor
-Superpower
-Crabhammer
Hyper Cutter, Adamant
252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP (252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Def on a Trick Room team =O)

Seems to me like Crawdaunt's good for one thing, and one thing only: bustin' up some walls.

Crawdaunt kinda got hosed if you ask me... Jolly-Scarfed doesn't even outrun NORMAL Gengar, and Crawdaunt gets no priority attacks. No Sucker Punch, no Pursuit, no Aqua Jet. He COULD Knock Off, but I don't think he really has the bulk for it. He COULD Taunt, but he's not super-speedy... He COULD Avalanche if he could take a hit. His only real option is to switch into walls and fuck them up beyond belief. I figured since you're running Choice Band anyway, there's no reason NOT to run Superpower, since even if the opponent switches in something else, unless it's a Ghost type, it'll be taking some serious damage. You can just switch out to reset the stat loss... *shrug*

Crawdaunt needs an evolution... Or at least some better moves... Sucker Punch or Aqua Jet, plz.

Also, I'm not sayin' that his moves SUCK... I've just been getting used to having a LOT of priority to make up for raw power and utility, since I've been playing a lot more UU and NU lately... Bannete makes me smile.



Sunflora @Leftovers/Heat Rock
-Leech Seed/Encore/Grasswhistle/Rest
-Hidden Power Fire
-Sunny Day
-Solarbeam
Solar Power, Modest/Quiet
252 HP, 252 Sp.Atk, 6 Sp.Def

...

All Sunflora can do is SunnyBeam...

Encore or Grasswhistle MIGHT make you mildly annoying, I s'pose... Leech Seed is kinda like team support, since it stays in while you switch, or the enemy can be stupid and BP it to another member of their team... Hidden Power Fire keeps you from being walled by other Grass types and Steels. If you go with Leftovers, you may as well try for Encore or Grasswhistle. Probably Encore. If you go with Heat Rock, it may as well be Leech Seed. Hell, go with Leftovers AND Leech Seed... Either way, you need something to help that HP loss from Solar Power, because it WILL build up. You can even try Rest if you're worried about Toxic or something, but I don't think Sunflora really has the survivability to use it...

Anyway, I'd personally go Leftovers with Encore. Encore against Sub, Stealth Rock, Swords Dance, etc... Then set up Sunny Day and attempt a sweep without dying. Try it in Trick Room with a Quiet nature, I guess. Lol, Sunflora's too slow to use Chlorophyll. =P



Illumise @Leftovers/Salac Berry
-Bug Buzz
-Charge Beam
-Substitute/Encore
-Baton Pass
Tinted Lens, Timid
252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP

Illumise is pretty nifty with that Tainted Lens ability... Bug Buzz, targeting a Dark or Psychic type, they switch to a Rock or Steel type, and you can still hit it for neutral damage. Bug Buzz basically means you hit EVERYTHING but 4x resistances for neutral damage.

Anyway, Sub or Encore against setups like Stealth Rock and Sub (it's fun to Encore Belly Drums from Smeargle and the likes :3), and you can either BP said Sub to another Pokemon for safer switching, Charge Beam for a stat boost, or Bug Buzz for damage... Bug Buzz, obviously, is your main attack. Charge Beam's really just for the stat boost... Yeah, Illumise gets Growth, too, but you may as well be dealing damage while you buff, right?

Should you decide to use the Salac Berry to pass a Spd boost, you'll have to alter the EVs a bit, depending on IVs. If you have 31 IVs in HP, you'll have 271 with no EVs, which is bad. Use those last six EVs to boost it to 272. If you have ZERO IVs in HP, you'd sooner invest those EVs into Def or something, because duh, 240 is divisible by four. The reason for HP/4 is so that once you get in that third Sub, and the Salac pops, you still have 25% HP left... That lets you survive Sandstorm or Hail damage. Watch out for Stealth Rock, though. If you go with Salac, and you Sub down to it, don't expect to send Illumise back out again with any success...

Put it all in one post.

=D

(Also, Illumise makes for a good choice Specs recipient. Crawdaunt doesn't need priority. D=)

Sagechild wrote:Put it all in one post.

=D

Ninja and I are pretty much the only ones that even post here, except when someone wants to bitch. I don't think it matters.

Shine wrote:

Sagechild wrote:Put it all in one post.

=D

Ninja and I are pretty much the only ones that even post here, except when someone wants to bitch. I don't think it matters.

It does a little when you post multiple synopsis in one day.