Proposed NU Tier List

Posted at Shade's request...

Ariados
Bastiodon***
Beautifly
Beedrill
Butterfree***
Carnivine***
Castform
Corsola
Delcatty
Delibird
Ditto
Dustox
Farfetch'd
Furret
Girafarig***
Glalie
Illumise
Kricketune
Ledian
Lumineon
Luvdisc
Magcargo
Minun***
Mothim
Pachirisu
Parasect
Pelipper
Pidgeot
Plusle***
Qwilfish***
Sableye***
Seaking
Spinda
Sudowoodo***
Sunflora
Tropius***
Unown
Volbeat
Whiscash***
Wigglytuff
Wormadon Grass, Ground, and Steel

***: Probably UU

For sure remove

Gastrodon
Qwilfish
Probopass
Nidoqueen
Banette

Srsly wtf to those?

Probably Bastidon, Carnivube.

MAYBE Wormadam Steel.

Wigglytuff could be added, as well as Mawile. Dewgong's a pretty possible addition. Girafarig, Mightyena, possibly Noctowl and Raticate, Swalot, Torokal, Trapinch, I'd say Venemoth, but that has highish use now, and Wailord.

Sagechild wrote:For sure remove

Gastrodon
Qwilfish
Probopass
Nidoqueen
Banette

Srsly wtf to those?

Probably Bastidon, Carnivube.

MAYBE Wormadam Steel.

Wigglytuff could be added, as well as Mawile. Dewgong's a pretty possible addition. Girafarig, Mightyena, possibly Noctowl and Raticate, Swalot, Torokal, Trapinch, I'd say Venemoth, but that has highish use now, and Wailord.

Adding/Keeping in NU, I'd personally say...

Qwilfish (only really works in Rain. :\)
Wigglytuff (fails at trying to be Clefable)
Girafarig (just doesn't have the stats or abilities...)
Wormadam (BAD movepool, and somewhat lack-luster stats)

Moving/Keeping UU, I'd say...

Gastrodon (essentially a mini-Swampert with some quirks, like Stockpile and Recover)
Nidoqueen (versatile, with lots of utility, good defenses)
Banette (Insomnia, lots of utility attacks, big Atk stat)
Mawile (Steel has a lot of resistances, and Mawile has Intimidate on its side)
Dewgong (Hydration)
Mightyena (Quick Feet makes it a viable sweeper, gets STAB Sucker Punch, Taunt, Roar)
Noctowl (viable Sp.Wall, gets 101Subs, gets Psycho Shift)
Raticate (Guts, high Spd, STAB'd Facade, T-Wave, Super Fang)
Swalot (101Subs, interesting movepool, not a bad set of stats, Pain Split, Sticky Hold against Trick users)
Torkoal (not bad HP, good Def, good Curse user, viable Amnesia user)
Trapinch (good revenge-killer on a Trick Room team, banded or Sashed)
Venomoth (good Spd, good Sp.Atk, Tinted Lens, Sleep Powder, Toxic Spikes, good Agility passer)
Wailord (101Subs, Water Spout, Water Veil, Curse, Tickle, Amnesia, Roar)
Probopass (unlike Bastiodon, Probopass has a good ability and doesn't need Toxic to deal decent damage)

Sorry for the double-post, but I didn't want to get this mixed up with the other crap.

I had someone else check out the list to see what they thought, and they said they would consider dropping the following:

--Bastiodon
Because of its typing and monster defenses, a lot of Pokemon would have trouble with it, so it would be too centralized, and difficult to deal with. Not many Pokemon in NU get strong Ground or Fighting attacks, and STAB'd Stone Edge destroys most of the Pokemon in the tier without question.

--Butterfree
Might become too centralized due to Sleep Powder hax, decent Spd, and decent Sp.Atk.

Girafarig
Stats might be too big for NU, and has a good movepool.

--Minun and Plusle
Little too capable. They get Nasty Plot, and high Spd + STAB'd T-Bolt = raep Flying types.

--Qwilfish
Apparently, works all right outside of Rain.

--Sableye
Nice movepool, and gets Nasty Plot.

--Sudowoodo
Atk and Def might be too high for NU.

--Tropius
Typing might be too good for NU. STAB'd Aerial Ace/Air Slash, gets EQ to deal with Magcargo, only takes neutral Bug damage, etc.

--Whiscash
Might be too bulky for NU.

Thoughts?

GOTTA WATCH OUT FER PLUSLE AND MINUN

THEY'LL RAPE YOUR TEAM

First off, a lot of the pokes I suggested were NU last gen, and didn't make many improvement.


Wailord will easily stay NU, even with the addition of physical attacks and Scarf.

Sudowoodo hasn't change, so it'll stay NU.

Girafarig again, was NU last gen, and didn't make hueg gains.

Butterfree has always had Compound eyes, and was NU last gen.

Tropius, again, hasn't made huge improvement and has a 4x ice weakness Wigglytuff can manipulate easily.

lolwhiscash

Trapinch will stay NU. Who heard of Trick Room in NU?

Notowl again, was NU. It only got special STAB, and really not that much of an improvement.

Hydration probably won't be enough to remove Dewgong from NU, because it'd have to set up to use it, and then it loses coverage.

Mawile has lolstats and really won't do too much to NU.

Raticate, Torokal, and Swalot haven't changed too much from last gen when they were NU. They'll stay.

Plulse and Minun may or may not. That's gonna be touch-and-go.

Shine, I swear you're on meth.

IMO, we should do the NU list the same way that UU is decided. That means:

1.) Use usage statistics from the Smogon UU Ladder (that's our best bet, statistic-wise, anyways) to weed out the most used Pokemon in UU, regardless of power.
2.) Add EVERYTHING else to our "NU" list.
3.) Play-test A LOT.
4.) Ban Pokemon from NU who are deemed too over-centralizing/strong/over-used.

The real question we need to ask ourselves is which percentage of UU do we want to start with? I'm not much of a math nerd, so it'd be helpful if someone not mathematically-challenged could help :p. But if not, I'll do my best.

This, to me, is the only way to have a playable and varied NU metagame.

Anyways, I don't have a problem with your list, Shine. Bastiodon could end up being centralizing, but we won't know for sure without testing. It's not so much that I want to take things OFF your list, but rather I feel we should ADD to it =).

Sasami wrote:IMO, we should do the NU list the same way that UU is decided. That means:

1.) Use usage statistics from the Smogon UU Ladder (that's our best bet, statistic-wise, anyways) to weed out the most used Pokemon in UU, regardless of power.
2.) Add EVERYTHING else to our "NU" list.
3.) Play-test A LOT.
4.) Ban Pokemon from NU who are deemed too over-centralizing/strong/over-used.

The real question we need to ask ourselves is which percentage of UU do we want to start with? I'm not much of a math nerd, so it'd be helpful if someone not mathematically-challenged could help :p. But if not, I'll do my best.

This, to me, is the only way to have a playable and varied NU metagame.

Anyways, I don't have a problem with your list, Shine. Bastiodon could end up being centralizing, but we won't know for sure without testing. It's not so much that I want to take things OFF your list, but rather I feel we should ADD to it =).

I agree about adding things, because taking so much off is really sorta frightening me. I just don't know where to find the usage statistics for UU. XD;

I planned on doing a lot of play-tests, like, on Shoddy or something. In fact, today, I was gonna ask people if they would be willing to start putting "NU" teams together to see what gets centralized, and what's too strong and such.

i could have swore that all these pokemon were UU.
NU just means they are not usable right?
I mean Delibird is semi usable, and so is Sudowoodo.
yeah they are pretty bad pokemon but to say NU is a bit harsh for most of them.

Well, NU is just for thigns that can't easily do well in the UU environment.

sableye is good atker too shine shadow sneak. then it can tank and recover. also it can mean look on u

Nazil wrote:sableye is good atker too shine shadow sneak. then it can tank and recover. also it can mean look on u

Sableye has mediocre stats and movepool.

=D

How can we have pokemon TOO bad for UU?

If they are bad, do not use them.

Look at their stats, and if none are over 80, then they are NU. If their abilty is SUPER gay, then they are NU. If their move pool is shit, then they are NU. If 2 out of 3 of these things are true about a pokemon, then they are NU.

The only thing that you said that even slightly related to the conversation was 'NU'.

I said they should be cou8nted NU is they have all base stats under 80, if their movepool is shit, and if their abilty is shit.

If 2/3 of thoso is shit, then they are shit. Shit should be NU.

Well, it's also determined by usage, hence the name Neverused. Pokemon don't just become Neverused because of stats/abilities/moves/etc. Except for Entei.

Oh.

Well...

They should be.