OMG. Amazing article concerning playing to win.

http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/

Read this, everyone, it's pretty awesome.

zomg i fucking love Sirlin. i think he stole my golden gun

Ah, cheapness. The penultimate John!

The only 'true' example of 'cheapness' is Link in the Gamecube version of Soulcalibur II.

I guess I'd be a 'scrub' then because I do think that cheap tactis ruin a game. Wanting to win so much that you stop caring how enjoyable the game is or how much variety there is makes you like the stereotypical sports dad who yells at his kids to win, will go to any cruel lengths to make the other kids lose and is generally an asshole. The villain of a Disney movie.

Shadchild wrote:I guess I'd be a 'scrub' then because I do think that cheap tactis ruin a game. Wanting to win so much that you stop caring how enjoyable the game is or how much variety there is makes you like the stereotypical sports dad who yells at his kids to win, will go to any cruel lengths to make the other kids lose and is generally an asshole. The villain of a Disney movie.

This is explaining that these so-called "Cheap tactics" are developed, countered and re-developed, making cheap eventually look normal., and therefore raising the quality of the game.

It's an evolution process in gaemz.

It's not saying that things that are universally cheap (IE Spore/Lock On/Sheer Cold Smeargle) are accepte4d, it's that people who resort to calling EVERYTHING cheap are scrubs.

You, sir, are not a scrub.

I don't know if I can consider that a universal truth in games, particularly fighting games. There's an old school style 2D fighting game that I even occasionally go to those retarded arcade tournaments for, Melty Blood, and I can safely say there is such thing as "cheap." There's a technique in many fighting games called "turtling", which is crouching down and holding back at the same time in the corner, effectively shielding you from every type of attack but throws, and it just so happens there is a character in Melty Blood who has a move that has one of the longest ranges, and high priority. Basically this means you can't hit them because they are turtling, and you can't throw them because when you try to get in close, they'll nail you with their long range quick attack, which can even lead into a combo.

Luckily, there are a few characters that can counter her. Of course, this means that in tournaments, you see like fifty fucking people choosing the same three goddamn characters, not because they are better than all other characters, but because they're trying to exploit that broken advantage, or specifically trying to counter that single thing, it's ridiculous. The only way to discourage that shit is to identify such characters or techniques as "noobish" or "scrub" so that the prideful douchebags will use something else to prove they have even an ounce of skill. Luckily with the new version of the game coming out in a couple months, it's imitating Brawl in that if you try to shield forever, you're going to get a shield break and leave yourself vulnerable for getting your shit ruined, but situations like that are where I would have to say there is without a doubt scrub situations.

There's not much i think is cheap, other then useing fast pokemon that put you to sleep, then lock on, then 1 hit ko.

That, is only someone that has less skill then me would do.

Tobi wrote:There's not much i think is cheap, other then useing fast pokemon that put you to sleep, then lock on, then 1 hit ko.

That, is only someone that has less skill then me would do.

You could just use a pokemon with Insomnia or Vital Spirit to prevent that, really.

Or just switch out o_0

Also, *than
*using

I don't swich.

My stlye is taking pokemon with a great att/SA, hoping there speed is good, then useinf them to fight till they die.

I'm doing pretty dam good so far, so blah.

Cheapness = Satan trying to rape you.

Tobi, your gender went female again xD

Also, there is no cheapness (that I know of so far) in pokemon battling.

Only annoying pokemon/moves/combos. "Cheap" is pretty much what comes out of your mouth when you think something is a pain in the ass to deal with properly/you don't have the means to deal with it.

Also, power swap would murder you, then.

Who the hell keeps doing that!

It's annyoing the fuck outa me. XD On who's doing it, or site glich of what ever.

Yes. Yes it would. I find thnigs the i don't like cheap. Like baton pass. Or walls.

I hate cheap.

You do realize it's probably just Zack fucking with you right?

Tobi wrote:
Yes. Yes it would. I find thnigs the i don't like cheap. Like baton pass. Or walls.

Posterchild of what the author of that article said.

And if Tobi had boobs and a vagina, he'd be a little more tolerable because I could just chalk his attention whoring to being female. You may as well try and run with that Tobi, it's your only hope.

..i'm not sure if i want to lol or cry.

I'LL DO BOTH SO EVERYONES HAPPY!

And zack might hate me alot, but he said he was a good admin, and not only an admin cuz he knows sage in real life.

If he wants to prove that, he wouldn't act like a bad admin. Silly ryu.

Heaven forum is gimpy on profiles, seemingly.

OR Jewbi is changing it's own gender.

It's own gender?

FooL! I'm a guy!

And ya, the old blame it on the guy you hate trick.

You can't fool me with weak shit like that!

Still went back to female, Tobi xD

Zack?

Fine. You fucking win. I'm not evening going to change it back.

Lets just all ignore it guys.

basically anyone who cannot accept a defeat as their own fault = Scrub. Anyone who constantly yells out "Cheap" = scrub. Not playing to win and being a scrub are too different things. You can play to have fun or to search the depths of the game finding little tricks and what not. You are not playing to win there, but you are however trying to search the game to its core. Thus making you a better player.

For anyone who knows who Mew2King is. I went to a Georgia Melee tournament recently and he was there. I heard him yell out "WTF random rest" cause he was getting beat by a Jigglypuff Player named Hungrybox. i had to yell out "No johns" and someone else yelled out "Don't be a Sirlin Scrub M2K" a lot of people laughed, considering he is the best player in the nation and probably the world.

moral of the story. Anyone can act like a scrub sometimes and everyone has the inner scrub. you just have to look past it sometimes and say "GG".

oh and btw Turtling in Mortal Kombat 2 is much more annoying than what you say in Melty Blood Shiki. Hold Down and Back and Block and you can't be grabbed and they can do almost no damage to you. all you have to do is get a good combo off and you win.

I am a turtler in Melee with Bowser and Ganon (and sometimes yoshi but normally i just go into egg time).

Look, if i'm beaten, i say hey, i suck, your better, ha ha on me.

If you put my pokemon to sleep, then kill him, then do that for all 6 of my pokemon, i'll dc on the 4th, and call you names most likey.

you = scrub then

just switch thats why there is a sleeping clause in effect most of the time

KOTheManWithTheGoldenGun wrote:you = scrub then

just switch thats why there is a sleeping clause in effect most of the time

BUT he's held to the rule that switching is cheap.

IT'S A SCRUB SELF-MIND TRAP.

srsly Pakri, that is scrub mentality, Q.E.D.

The only thing that is certifiably cheap is when there is no way to counter it. And I'm sorry, but the situation you mentioned has a myriad of ways to counter it.

Not for me.

And, no way in hell i'd make a pokemon to just fight sleepers, or baton passers, or any of that bull shite.

Never mind, i'm just going to hate sleep. Forever.

Tobi wrote:Not for me.

And, no way in hell i'd make a pokemon to just fight sleepers, or baton passers, or any of that bull shite.

Never mind, i'm just going to hate sleep. Forever.

I don't use any of that, I just switch to one of my sweepers and rape.

Walls make great sleep fodder so the sweepers aren't disabled.