Bill of Rights

I notice a lot of people bitching about what they can and can't do, and I see a lot of mods pullin' some shit they probably shouldn't be pullin' (at least, according to the moods and complaints of civilian members).

I suggest a Bill of Rights- the Rules outline what we can't do, but a Bill of Rights would define what we CAN do as members, mods, or Admins, so that we all actually know where our limits lie, and mods know under what circumstances they're allowed to kick/ban.

Yeah, it might take some work, but at this point, when everyone's kinda ticked, we really need somethin' like this.

Keep in mind that Admins and Mods alone wouldn't be creating this Bill. A Bill of Rights is made for the good of the site as a whole, and if there were no members, there would be no site (not literally, but figuratively). As such, EVERYONE would have a say in how the Bill is written, and how each "right" is defined or interperated.

A few things off the top of my head to include in the Bill:

-Under which conditions/circumstances does phrase or statement become "flaming" or spiteful.
-Under which conditions can a Mod or Admin kick, temp. ban, or permaban a member.
-What limits to which a member can debate with a Mod over justifying his/her actions or behavior before it's considered disrespectful, or back-talking.
-When it's necessary or even justified to lock a topic.

And other such things we'll think of as we go. I really think it'd help bring a little order to Shuten. Once people know what they can and can't do, and everyone's had a say in it, then no one can rightfully complain about being banned or something from the chatbox and the likes, because they'll know full-well what they did wrong. The Rules sub-section should also probably have a "Court" thread where people can bring their appeals to the "public." Of course, in order to have any kind of argument, they'll need some sort of evidence, like a witness to back up their case, and perhaps a saved Chat Log, or preferably a legible screenshot to assure there's no alteration to the evidence.

Yep.

Fuck yes.

THERE MUST BE 19!!!!

I agree. Lets do it.

Well, I'll help write and revise it if needed, I suppose.

Suen wrote:I agree. Lets do it.

You and Sami should mull over the first draft before you allow members to see it and bitch. Let's have something to go on and outline our general needs first, because otherwise, opinions and ideas will be lost, and things will become chaotic.

Shine wrote:

Suen wrote:I agree. Lets do it.

You and Sami should mull over the first draft before you allow members to see it and bitch. Let's have something to go on and outline our general needs first, because otherwise, opinions and ideas will be lost, and things will become chaotic.

well we need more ideas about what giude lines you guys want to be included in this. I think one is that everyone needs to be included in major decidtions involving the site. After all i did make this site to be more domocracy like than other forums.

Suen wrote:

Shine wrote:

Suen wrote:I agree. Lets do it.

You and Sami should mull over the first draft before you allow members to see it and bitch. Let's have something to go on and outline our general needs first, because otherwise, opinions and ideas will be lost, and things will become chaotic.

well we need more ideas about what giude lines you guys want to be included in this. I think one is that everyone needs to be included in major decidtions involving the site. After all i did make this site to be more domocracy like than other forums.

Well, you're the boss.

I'll help with it. So far, the only people who have directly complained about my moderation so far are PP and I /think/ Shiki. :\

Wasn't me if it was talking to a mod. Minute I complain about someone, I'll be getting complaints about my own impressive, awesome, meat popsicle douchiness, karma is a bitch like that. If it was cbox chatter then yeah, since I so very miss when the box was anarchy and everyone just made fun of each other, oh god those times were good. All that delicious humor at the expense of others, om nom nom. ALMOST...I'M ALMOST THERE...FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

But I digress, I was getting a little too excited. A bill sounds too srs bsns, but if everyone gets what they want, I guess it won't be mad retarded.

Hey, can we just make the c-box a free place, where there are /fewer/ rules?

I mean, lets limit the bitching, and moar of shiki.

This site however, is about pokemon. Making it into a house of law seems...kinda silly.

I call Jury duty.

We can make a thing just for like court, and then do everything there.

Tobi wrote:Hey, can we just make the c-box a free place, where there are /fewer/ rules?

I mean, lets limit the bitching, and moar of shiki.

This site however, is about pokemon. Making it into a house of law seems...kinda silly.

I call Jury duty.

We can make a thing just for like court, and then do everything there.

Interestingly enough, a Bill of Rights would likely allow bitching so long as it didn't break the profanity or flaming rules.

Could you please stop useing that smiley PP?

I don't want to stop it,...well yes, I really do, but more like move it to the vents/rants.

If you want to bitch, bitch there.

Not in other places, where doing so drives out old and new members.

I'll still kick people for being bitchy, it's so annoying.

If you guys really want to do this, I would suggest trying to write one based on the current rules, and post it here.

Then the staff can take a look, and make any necessary changes. We can re-post it, and you guys can take a look and see what you think...etc. etc.

It's really not even a question of "want" anymore. It's starting to become a necessity, what with abuse of power and alienation of basic rights and such...

And the bitching.

It /must/ stop.

And...who's going to write it?

I'll go make 5, and then you guys can say Yes, or No.

The Bill of Site Rights

1. Bitching-It can be done, but only in the vents/rants topic. Elsewhere were get a kick, and then maybe a ban.
2. Haxing- Only legal.
3. Cursing- Can be done, as long as what it’s done at doesn’t ask you to stop first.
4. Pet-Peeve- You can have 1, and that one thing cannot be done by any member.
5. Racism- None of it, unless in jest, and the person you’re doing it to doesn’t mind.

Tell me if I'm way off, or if I should keep going.

well its all up to the members to make it.. then the staff will look it over so once you guys have a first copy send it to me or sami and we will look it over.

Well.

I have a few fatal flaws to point out in the five presented.

1 - You know, the 1st Amendment...
2 - that's already in the rules.
3 - Covered by rules.
4 - Too much work. Pet peeves could change daily, and certain ones would limit Freedom of Expression
5 - In the rules, see "Flaming"

Tobi wrote:The Bill of Site Rights

1. Bitching-It can be done, but only in the vents/rants topic. Elsewhere were get a kick, and then maybe a ban.
2. Haxing- Only legal.
3. Cursing- Can be done, as long as what it’s done at doesn’t ask you to stop first.
4. Pet-Peeve- You can have 1, and that one thing cannot be done by any member.
5. Racism- None of it, unless in jest, and the person you’re doing it to doesn’t mind.

Tell me if I'm way off, or if I should keep going.

Bill of Rights tells us what we CAN do and defines the circumstances under which said Rights are applied.

Well, I'll put my two cents in.

Limited Free Speech - So long as it isn't against any rules, or infringing on being against them, no speech can be limited for any reason whatsoever.

Furthermore, any attempts by staff to limit such speech (kicks and/or bans,) will result in temporary suspension of powers of said staff member. Any further limiting attempts will be met up with court for possible demotion.

Well, for the sake of politeness, offensive statements should be met with a kick, and a temp. ban if they persist after the kick.

Also, there's a vent/rant section for a reason. If you want to complain about something, do it there. Besides that, try to keep anger and complaints out of the chatbox. Personal disputes can be handled through PMs or in the Court.

Shine wrote:Well, for the sake of politeness, offensive statements should be met with a kick, and a temp. ban if they persist after the kick.

Also, there's a vent/rant section for a reason. If you want to complain about something, do it there. Besides that, try to keep anger and complaints out of the chatbox. Personal disputes can be handled through PMs or in the Court.

xD

Offensive speech is already covered in the rules.

Then again, if you try to limit offensive, people could just say "I take offence to that," to change the subject, even if they don't, and effectively lie.

So "offensive" speech will have to be handled differently then you suggested.


Also, the Vent/Rant section isn't always good, sometimes people want to vent, and NOT have it recorded for everyone to see.

You know, dignity and all.

Yeah, offensive is entirely subjective. When I'm on a roll, every other word that comes out of my mouth can be considered offensive to someone, and I'm gonna RAEG SO HERD if my black humor results in numerous kicks. It was perfect the way it was before, with very, very little modding of the cbox. The forum can have all the rules in the world, the cbox should remain a pure bastion of chaos.

Shiki wrote:Yeah, offensive is entirely subjective. When I'm on a roll, every other word that comes out of my mouth can be considered offensive to someone, and I'm gonna RAEG SO HERD if my black humor results in numerous kicks. It was perfect the way it was before, with very, very little modding of the cbox. The forum can have all the rules in the world, the cbox should remain a pure bastion of chaos.

It can be chaos but it needs some regulations. not everyone here can be talking about some of the things we talk about here.