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With the addition of Shuten event Pokemon, some UUs have become more viable. Now the question is, should they be allowed in UU tournaments here? How about the UU Dojo? Some are pretty harmless (such as Leech Seed Oddish or Air Slash Natu) but there has been some concern over the more attack-oriented ones (Flare Blitz Flareon is a good example).
Should we allow them all and see what happens? Ban certain ones that seem like they could become too centralizing? Or should we ban them all period?
Allowing them all at first seems like the best idea since it's hard to judge exactly what will happen to a metagame. The main issue with that, though, is UU play might be kinda unbalanced for a bit if a Pokemon DOES end up being too powerful. Technically, someone could totally abuse a certain event Pokemon and get easy wins.
The following three Pokemon are the biggest "threats" I can think of. But as you'll see, they aren't quite as threatening as they seem.
Calm Mind Dewgong
Likely moveset:
Bold/Calm Nature with Leftovers or Damp Rock
-Rain Dance/Surf/Hidden Power Electric or Grass
-Rest
-Calm Mind
-Ice Beam/Surf
Possible EV spread: 252 HP/252 Defense/6 Special Attack
On one side...: It functions almost as a mini-Suicune with reliable recovery and immunity to status. After a few Calm Minds, both defenses are quite high. Has STAB Ice Beam, which no Pokemon are immune to.
On the other side...: It's stats are very mediocre, even with Calm Mind boosts. It needs to have someone else on the team set up Rain Dance (which grants it only a few turns of HydroRest) or set it up itself which means it loses important type coverage. Dewgong has a shallow movepool and no way to stop opponents from PHazing.
Does it have a true counter? Yes. Calm Mind Dewgong is actually easier to counter in UU than in OU because of Pokemon like Politoed, Poliwrath, and Quagsire being so common. In fact, those Pokemon are all excellent counters. Quagsire has to watch out for Hidden Power Grass but if it has that, than it doesn't have Surf or Ice Beam which means it can be walled by either grass types or steel/fire types easily. If Dewgong isn't being played on a Rain Dance team then it has to set up Rain Dance on it's own which means it only gets one attack. If it IS on a Rain Dance team, the rain can be stalled out or switched to something else (such as Sunny Day).
Flare Blitz Flareon
Likely moveset:
Adamant or Lonely with Choice Scarf or Choice Band (a +speed nature may also be used)
-Flare Blitz
-Return
-Quick Attack/Iron Tail/Overheat
-Quick Attack/Iron Tail/Overheat
Possible EV spread: 252 attack/252 speed/6 HP or 252 HP/252 attack/6 speed (some sets might use special attack EVs for Overheat)
On one side...: Flash Fire and excellent special defense allow it to switch in easier than a lot of sweepers. With it's ridiculous attack stat, it can deal tons of damage with STAB Flare Blitz. Choice Band makes it especially strong while Choice Scarf helps it get around that low speed. Overheat means that it can hit hard from both sides of the spectrum.
On the other side...: It's very slow for a sweeper and can't take physical hits. Choice Scarf helps but it loses power. Either way, it's usually locked into a move which makes countering easier. It's weak to stealth rock and has awful type coverage.
Does it have a true counter? Yes. Torkoal is probably the best counter there is, although other defensive fire-types like Camerupt can work. Any physical wall that isn't weak to fire will probably be ok. Baton Pass or Curse sets are easily beaten by PHazers or Taunters. Revenge killing is easy as it's very slow and frail.
Volt Tackle Luxray
Likely moveset:
Adamant or Jolly with Choice Scarf or Choice Band (possibly Life Orb and a -sp.def nature, especially on a set using Thunderbolt or Discharge)
-Volt Tackle
-Return
-Ice Fang
-Quick Attack/Crunch/Thunderbolt or Discharge
Possible EV spread: 252 attack/252 speed/6 HP (possibly some special attack EVs)
On one side...: Intimidate gives it enough bulk to switch in and makes it an excellent lead. STAB Volt Tackle from Luxray is extremely strong, especially when Luxray has a Choice Band. Luxray has enough special attack that it can run mixed sets making it harder to properly counter. It can make up for it's low speed with a Choice Scarf.
On the other side...: Luxray has a pretty bad movepool aside from Volt Tackle and Crunch. It's special defense is low and it's defense isn't too amazing either. It's slow and easy to revenge-kill. Luxray often needs a choice item to reach it's full potential which means it's locked into a move. Several UU Pokemon are immune to electric.
Does it have a true counter? Yes. Steelix, Quagsire, Lanturn, Golem...the list goes on and on. Anything that's immune to electric (and not weak to ice) and has good defense will normally counter Luxray. If it's running a mixed set with Hidden Power then it's missing one of it's physical moves which means it loses coverage anyway. Many Pokemon are faster and can OHKO. Volt Tackle recoil wears it down fast, especially if it has a Life Orb.
I realize that all of these sets are very basic and more will certainly appear. But the point is, all of these Pokemon can be countered in UU. In fact, these Pokemon may actually perform better in OU. I've run damage calcs and the whole nine yards...these threats aren't as bad as they seem.
This thread is not meant to be a poll but a discussion. Do YOU feel we should allow event UUs in UU tournaments or the UU Dojo? Why or why not? I'll be deleting one-sentence posts that say things like "omg flareon with flare blitz will ohko everything!!11one".
I tried my best to include both sides of the argument but my own personal opinion is that we should allow these guys until they prove to be impossible to counter and/or over-centralizing.
Should we allow them all and see what happens? Ban certain ones that seem like they could become too centralizing? Or should we ban them all period?
Allowing them all at first seems like the best idea since it's hard to judge exactly what will happen to a metagame. The main issue with that, though, is UU play might be kinda unbalanced for a bit if a Pokemon DOES end up being too powerful. Technically, someone could totally abuse a certain event Pokemon and get easy wins.
The following three Pokemon are the biggest "threats" I can think of. But as you'll see, they aren't quite as threatening as they seem.
Calm Mind Dewgong
Likely moveset:
Bold/Calm Nature with Leftovers or Damp Rock
-Rain Dance/Surf/Hidden Power Electric or Grass
-Rest
-Calm Mind
-Ice Beam/Surf
Possible EV spread: 252 HP/252 Defense/6 Special Attack
On one side...: It functions almost as a mini-Suicune with reliable recovery and immunity to status. After a few Calm Minds, both defenses are quite high. Has STAB Ice Beam, which no Pokemon are immune to.
On the other side...: It's stats are very mediocre, even with Calm Mind boosts. It needs to have someone else on the team set up Rain Dance (which grants it only a few turns of HydroRest) or set it up itself which means it loses important type coverage. Dewgong has a shallow movepool and no way to stop opponents from PHazing.
Does it have a true counter? Yes. Calm Mind Dewgong is actually easier to counter in UU than in OU because of Pokemon like Politoed, Poliwrath, and Quagsire being so common. In fact, those Pokemon are all excellent counters. Quagsire has to watch out for Hidden Power Grass but if it has that, than it doesn't have Surf or Ice Beam which means it can be walled by either grass types or steel/fire types easily. If Dewgong isn't being played on a Rain Dance team then it has to set up Rain Dance on it's own which means it only gets one attack. If it IS on a Rain Dance team, the rain can be stalled out or switched to something else (such as Sunny Day).
Flare Blitz Flareon
Likely moveset:
Adamant or Lonely with Choice Scarf or Choice Band (a +speed nature may also be used)
-Flare Blitz
-Return
-Quick Attack/Iron Tail/Overheat
-Quick Attack/Iron Tail/Overheat
Possible EV spread: 252 attack/252 speed/6 HP or 252 HP/252 attack/6 speed (some sets might use special attack EVs for Overheat)
On one side...: Flash Fire and excellent special defense allow it to switch in easier than a lot of sweepers. With it's ridiculous attack stat, it can deal tons of damage with STAB Flare Blitz. Choice Band makes it especially strong while Choice Scarf helps it get around that low speed. Overheat means that it can hit hard from both sides of the spectrum.
On the other side...: It's very slow for a sweeper and can't take physical hits. Choice Scarf helps but it loses power. Either way, it's usually locked into a move which makes countering easier. It's weak to stealth rock and has awful type coverage.
Does it have a true counter? Yes. Torkoal is probably the best counter there is, although other defensive fire-types like Camerupt can work. Any physical wall that isn't weak to fire will probably be ok. Baton Pass or Curse sets are easily beaten by PHazers or Taunters. Revenge killing is easy as it's very slow and frail.
Volt Tackle Luxray
Likely moveset:
Adamant or Jolly with Choice Scarf or Choice Band (possibly Life Orb and a -sp.def nature, especially on a set using Thunderbolt or Discharge)
-Volt Tackle
-Return
-Ice Fang
-Quick Attack/Crunch/Thunderbolt or Discharge
Possible EV spread: 252 attack/252 speed/6 HP (possibly some special attack EVs)
On one side...: Intimidate gives it enough bulk to switch in and makes it an excellent lead. STAB Volt Tackle from Luxray is extremely strong, especially when Luxray has a Choice Band. Luxray has enough special attack that it can run mixed sets making it harder to properly counter. It can make up for it's low speed with a Choice Scarf.
On the other side...: Luxray has a pretty bad movepool aside from Volt Tackle and Crunch. It's special defense is low and it's defense isn't too amazing either. It's slow and easy to revenge-kill. Luxray often needs a choice item to reach it's full potential which means it's locked into a move. Several UU Pokemon are immune to electric.
Does it have a true counter? Yes. Steelix, Quagsire, Lanturn, Golem...the list goes on and on. Anything that's immune to electric (and not weak to ice) and has good defense will normally counter Luxray. If it's running a mixed set with Hidden Power then it's missing one of it's physical moves which means it loses coverage anyway. Many Pokemon are faster and can OHKO. Volt Tackle recoil wears it down fast, especially if it has a Life Orb.
I realize that all of these sets are very basic and more will certainly appear. But the point is, all of these Pokemon can be countered in UU. In fact, these Pokemon may actually perform better in OU. I've run damage calcs and the whole nine yards...these threats aren't as bad as they seem.
This thread is not meant to be a poll but a discussion. Do YOU feel we should allow event UUs in UU tournaments or the UU Dojo? Why or why not? I'll be deleting one-sentence posts that say things like "omg flareon with flare blitz will ohko everything!!11one".
I tried my best to include both sides of the argument but my own personal opinion is that we should allow these guys until they prove to be impossible to counter and/or over-centralizing.
