Shuten Dojo

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Shuten Dojo

Pokemon D/P/Pt Wifi Dojo.


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    Post by Guest Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:14 pm

    wow I just realized I am a little obsessed with RMT. I'm supprised I didn't make pun for my steel team.

    Anyway sorry if this team is kinda on the OU side.

    Heracross @Choice Scarf
    Adamant
    252 attack 252 speed 6 def
    Guts
    CC
    Megahorn
    EQ
    Rock slide/stone edge

    OR

    Aero @choice band
    Jolly
    252 speed 252 attack 6 hp
    Rock head
    EQ
    Rock slide
    Dragon claw
    Iron head

    Jolteon @the sp attack berry
    Timid
    252speed 252 sp attack
    Volt absorb
    T-bolt
    Shadow ball
    Sub
    Quick attack

    Kingdra @wise glasses
    Modest
    252 sp attack split speed, def and sp defence
    Swift swim
    Rain dance
    Surf
    Dragon pulse
    Ice Beam

    Weavile @f-sash
    Jolly
    252 speed 252 attack 6 def
    Pressure
    Ice shard
    Brick break
    Night slash
    SD

    Slowbro @leftovers
    Bold
    170 hp 170 sp defence 170 def
    Own tempo
    Slack off
    Psychic
    Surf
    Calm mind/amnesia

    Dusknoir @leftovers
    Impish
    252 sp defence 252 defence 6 hp
    Pressure
    Fire punch/thunder punch
    Pain split
    Wil-O-Wisp
    Shadow sneak


    Last edited by Ninja on Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:07 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Hidden Item)
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    Post by Shine Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:14 am

    Heracross v. Aerodactyl
    ScarfCross can be REALLY troublesome for a lot of opponents that aren't prepared for it, normally taking out at least two Pokemon before it goes down, but also has a very obvious movepool. ScarfCross is very easy to predict and wall, and as such, you may just be asking for a forced switch as something like Gengar or Mismagius switches into either Close Combat OR EQ. A Gengar could use that time to set up Sub or a Hypnosis, essentially rendering your switch in dead weight. Mismagius could also set up a Sub and get a free Calm Mind. Not fun... Should you choose ScarfCross, I'd go with Rock Slide. You've got less power, but that Flinchax chance is too hard to pass up.
    A Banded Aerodactyl is strong, but Aero's got a few strengths you're not really taking advantage of... A lot of people, especially in this Dojo, like to lead with setup Pokemon. Normally, the first action is something to cripple your lead, like Sleep Powder or Hypnosis. Aero makes a GREAT lead, being one of the fastest Pokemon with Taunt in the game, outrun only by Speed Deoxys (and Ninjask and a plethora of Scarf users, but THEY WON'T BE USING TAUNT). Aero can also set up Stealth Rock, which I've found to be ridiculously useful in a variety of situations, and, might I note, kills your need for Quick Attack on that Jolteon for sashes. Aero also grants you an EQ immunity. It won't be switching in against Garchomp anytime soon, but Pokemon like T-Tar may find it pretty difficult to deal with. Taunt, Stealth Rock, EQ, and Stone Edge would probably be the way to go. Jolly, of course, maxed in Atk and Spd, probably with Leftovers or a Life Orb.

    Jolteon
    As I said before, with SR from Aero, you really wouldn't need Quick Attack... I really don't see why it's there in the first place. I know it's to disrupt Sash users, but if they've got a Sash and you T-Bolt... They could get in a Spore... Or OHKO with EQ... Something like that. Yeah, you could try to put up a Sub first, but Jolt's so brittle that it won't be able to keep that Sub up long enough to even get in that first hit. Over Quick Attack, I think I would have Hidden Power Ice70 (classic and effective), or Fake Tears. Ninja runs a Jolteon with Fake Tears, and it can be a pain to deal with sometimes. The berry you're thinking of is Petaya. T-Bolt, Shadow Ball, Sub, HP Ice70 is probably the best coverage overall. ALSO, WTF, IT'S JOLLY. Make it Timid. Jolly kills its Sp.Atk stat.

    Kingdra
    Fuck the what... Kingdra doesn't belong on this team if it has Rain Dance and Swift Swim... If you really want to use a Kingdra, don't run Rain Dance, because it doesn't benefit anyone else on your team. Go with Sniper, hand it a Scope Lens, and teach it Focus Energy, Surf, Ice Beam (or Dragon Pulse if you're afraid of YacheChomp for whatever reason...), and probably some kind of Hidden Power. Water types often get Electric or Grass to deal with other Water types. The average choice is Electric since Surf already covers Ground and Rock, Grass' other type advantages. Modest, and put it all in Sp.Atk and Spd.

    Weavile
    Meh, Weavile's fine, I guess. This tends to work out. Try not to use Night Slash very often, because then they're kept guessing whether or not you've got Pursuit ('cept for everyone reading this thread). Normally, if I make a Psychic type, it's bulky, so I'm pretty confident enough against Pursuit that I'll stay in and smack 'em before they 2HKO. Just be wary of what they've already seen you do.

    Slowbro
    Slowbro can't spread out his EVs like that, cause it's weird, and inefficient... I'd put more in HP and Def. If you invest enough in Sp.Def that you think you can take a couple hits, go Calm Mind, but if you mostly invest it all in HP and Def, then go Amnesia. Honestly, I'd say dump it all in HP and Def... But the next Pokemon makes me think otherwise...

    Dusknoir
    WHAT THE FUCK DID I TELL YOU? Have you SEEN Dusknoir's HP stat...? He's a WALL, and as such, unless you're going for a specific Leftovers number, HE NEEDS MAX HP. FUCK. Screw Sp.Def. You put it all in Def, because a STAB Shadow Ball will probably OHKO anyway, considering his HP. Dusknoir is a physical wall, through and through. If you want to go with that moveset, T-Punch is practically required, because anything with Flash Fire will ruin it. Shadow Sneak with no Atk investment can only go so far, after all. I think most people actually forget Shadow Sneak to use both Fire Punch and Ice Punch/Thunder Punch. Ice Punch makes it a better Garchomp switch in (unless you switch into a Swords Dance...). Max HP and Def, pump anything left into Atk, and probably go with WillOWisp, Pain Split, Fire Punch, and Ice Punch.

    The Walls
    Dusknoir's a physical wall, and Slowbro's a physical wall, so what the fuck... Also, both are weak against Ghost AND Dark attacks, which causes you problems... I think I would sooner replace Dusknoir, because his HP sucks so hard. Honestly, I think a nice alternative would be Umbreon. Umbreon's weak against Fighting attacks, and Slowbro happily switches in to those. It also gives you a Psychic immunity, and just as Slowbro can use Amnesia to boost his weaker Sp.Def stat, Umbreon can Curse to boost its weaker Def stat, as well as its Atk. Umbreon's VERY versatile. It can BP things like Wish, Curse, and Mean Look, and it can even sweep after a few Curses. It makes an especially deadly and annoying Toxistaller, too, though Steel types would give it major problems-- most Steel types are physical, too, so I would REALLY consider giving Slowbro Flamethrower or Fire Blast over Surf, since Kingdra already has that and will be a stronger sweeper, anyway. Umbreon can maybe even Mean Look Steel and Fighting types before BPing to Slowbro, so then they're just fucked.

    The Sp.Sweepers
    Jolteon gives you a lot of speed, and if you go with the Kingdra I suggested, then Kingdra gives you a lot of power. With Sub up, Jolteon essentially gives you a status immunity, too, and both of them together give you pretty good type coverage. Jolteon can also switch in to Electric attacks that may be aimed at Kingdra (or Aero, should you go with that), and Kingdra will help for any Pokemon that boosts its stats. Sadly, Kingdra's movepool is very shallow and predictable. I don't have much to say here, honestly... Jolteon's very fragile, so be very careful about switching into things... It'll fair best as a revenge killer, and since it can't trap like Dugtrio, enemies will be more apt to switch. I would always attempt a Sub first thing, as nothing with Taunt oughta outrun you- only tie, at best, and if they think you'll outrun and OHKO, you may get a free Sub as they switch. All Kingdra can do is hope it can live long enough to safely set up Focus Energy and sweep.
    Please make Jolteon Timid.

    The Phys.Sweepers
    Personally, I would definitely go with Aero over Heracross. Aero can keep the opponent from putting your own Pokemon to sleep or setting up things like Stealth Rock, while you yourself can set up SR and attempt a sweep, or switch. SR will most certainly increase your sweeping ability, since any Focus Sash the enemy puts up will instantly be turned to shit, unless they OPEN with a Sash user, in which case they'll likely try to set up before attacking, which is why you have Taunt. Weavile, like Jolteon, is very brittle, and has only ONE safe switch in- Psychic attacks. As such, Weavile is best suited to revenge kills, hence why Pursuit is so popular a move choice. I'm really not sure what else to say, since Weavile's so straight-foreword. Toss it out after somethin' dies, sweep. A brittle Psychic type will likely switch, which is where Pursuit would be more useful, whereas a more bulky one, like Slowbro, might stay in and take a hit in hopes of OHKO'ing with Flamethrower or something, which is where Night Slash is better. You just kinda have to fight a few battles around Shuten to see which is best for this particular community. I'd generally say Night Slash is the better choice.

    OVERALL...
    It looks solid to me, with the revision I've given. Besides that, I worry about the lack of Fire type attacks to handle Steel types. Sure, you've got EQ on Aero, but Bronzong more often than not will Levitate, and Aero's pretty much the perfect target for Gyro Ball. I would also give SOMETHING on the team a Lum Berry- likely Jolteon, since it's quick enough that it can set up a Sub before they can Hypnosis or whatever again. Aero's another possibility, since it's got Taunt to completely shutdown any utility attacks. On one of my earlier teams, I found it almost essential to put a Lum Berry on my Gliscor (it was weird- a sweeper instead of a wall), as it could happily switch into WillOWisps and Spores and the likes.
    Also, even with Swords Dance and STAB, I dunno if Weavile can OHKO YacheChomp (though Garchomp in general isn't common in the Dojo) with Ice Shard, sooooooo... Be careful about that. Blissey can also rape you if they've got something to handle Weavile. I find the best Blissey counters to be good ole' 101SubPunchers- Snorlax (Thick Fat), Hariyama (Thick Fat/Guts, STAB), Kangaskahn (Scrappy for Ghost switch ins, Outrage), and Azumarill (Huge Power) are all wonderful choices, should you go that direction. Blissey also isn't very common in the Dojo, but it's a threat, regardless.

    Aerodactyl @Life Orb or Lum Berry
    -Taunt
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge/Rock Slide
    Pressure, Jolly
    252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP

    Jolteon @Petaya Berry or Lum Berry
    -Thunderbolt
    -Shadow Ball
    -Substitute
    -Hidden Power Ice or Ground
    Volt Absorb, Timid
    252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP

    Kingdra @Scope Lens
    -Focus Energy
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam/Dragon Pulse
    -Hidden Power Electric or Grass
    Sniper, Modest
    252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP

    Weavile @Focus Sash
    -Ice Shard
    -Night Slash
    -Brick Break
    -Swords Dance
    Pressure, Jolly
    252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP

    Slowbro @Leftovers
    -Flamethrower/Fire Blast (I've never had problems with Fire Blast, personally)
    -Psychic
    -Slack Off
    -Amnesia
    Own Tempo, Bold
    212 HP, 252 Def, 44 Sp.Atk (that HP's for perfect Leftovers recovery, and lets you invest more in Sp.Atk)

    Umbreon @Leftovers or Chople Berry (Chople lets it survive a Fighting attack long enough to Mean Look and BP)
    -Toxic (helps against other walls)
    -Mean Look
    -Baton Pass
    -Curse/Wish/Yawn/Protect/Payback (Probably Wish for easier BPing or Payback in case of Taunt)
    Synchronize, Careful
    252 HP, 252 Sp.Def, 6 Def

    Wtf, I think this much and yet I phail... Lord.
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    Post by Shine Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:38 pm

    Ohnoez, doublepost

    It was five in the morning when I made that post.

    http://pokemon.marriland.com/diamond_pearl/team_builder/

    I had a lot more written, but half of it didn't make sense, so I'm just gonna simplify it moar.

    Aero @Life Orb
    -EQ
    -Taunt
    -Stone Edge
    -SR
    Pressure, Jolly
    252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP

    Jolt @Petaya Berry
    -Sub
    -T-Bolt
    -Shadow Ball
    -HP Ice70
    Volt Absorb, Timid
    252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP

    Kingdra @Scope Lens
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam/Dragon Pulse
    -Focus Energy
    -HP Electric
    Sniper, Modest
    252 Sp.Atk, 252 Spd

    Metagross @Life Orb
    -Agility
    -Ice Punch/Thunder Punch
    -Bullet Punch/Meteor Mash
    -Earthquake
    Clear Body, Adamant
    152 HP, 252 Atk, 104 Spd

    Weezing @Leftovers
    -Haze
    -WillOWisp
    -Blizzard
    -Fire Blast
    Levitate, Bold
    252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Sp.Atk

    Umbreon @Leftovers
    -Toxic
    -Mean Look
    -Baton Pass
    -Wish/Payback
    Synchronize, Careful
    252 HP, 252 Sp.Def, 6 Def

    I dunno about Kingdra still. Don't ask me why, I just don't know. I'd personally go with Vaporeon or Swampert, since they can Roar. Swampert's also bulkier, and Vaporeon's got more Sp.Atk to begin with. Probably Vaporeon.

    At least with this, you don't have a Garchomp weakness (go Weezing, w00t), but Blissey will still raep. I'm tellin' ya... 101SubPunch. *wink*
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    Post by Guest Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:02 pm

    Thanx this will be my permanent team for w while. (my old team got raped left and right and back to front by garm blissey and weavile so i thought i would change it up a bit.) also the jolly thing on jolt was a major typo
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    Post by Zenith Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:02 pm

    Who is garm?
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    Post by Guest Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:43 pm

    hm? o i presses space and m at the same time
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    Post by Shine Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:58 pm

    Zihark wrote:Thanx this will be my permanent team for w while. (my old team got raped left and right and back to front by garm blissey and weavile so i thought i would change it up a bit.) also the jolly thing on jolt was a major typo
    Like I said, I've found 101SubPunchers to be the best way to deal with Blissey and Weavile. Blissey likes to T-Wave first thing (w00tw00t Sub), and Weavile will either Swords Dance or try to attack first thing. Unless they crit with Night Slash or something, if your SubPuncher has half-decent defenses, it shouldn't KO, or even deal enough to keep it from setting up that Sub.

    My top recommendations for SubPunchers in the cases of Blissey and Weavile are Hariyama and Azumarill.

    Hariyama @Flame Orb
    -Fling
    -Substitute
    -Focus Punch
    -Bullet Punch
    Guts, Adamant
    252 Atk, 252 Def, 6 Sp.Def (you may wanna put EVs from Def to Spd to outrun Blissey before it can T-Wave).

    This Hariyama's ALMOST a physical wall as well as a SubPuncher. Assuming he's got at least SIX IVs in HP, he needs no EV investment to make 101+ Subs. Flame Orb may make you a little more inclined to add HP EVs, but it should work out all right without it. The idea is simple- set up a Sub, Focus Punch. If they've got a Sash, you Bullet Punch that last sliver away, and if they happen to be a physical sweeper (Gyarados or Garchomp, maybe?), then you can Fling your Flame Orb for a free burn. Fuck you, Swords Dance. Yes, Weavile gets Aerial Ace, but AA is more often than not shunned for things like Ice Shard. You shouldn't have anything to worry about.

    or...

    Hariyama @Leftovers
    -Fake Out/Whirlwind/Knock Off
    -Substitute
    -Focus Punch
    -Bullet Punch
    Thick Fat, Adamant
    12 HP, 252 Atk, 246 Def (Same as before, you wanna outrun Blissey).

    This one's a little different, but should be just as good... You sac a little power from Guts and the ability to Burn things for a lot more durability. Thick Fat pretty much guarantees its Subs will stand up to at least one Ice Beam or Ice Punch from Blissey or Weavile, and Leftovers keeps your HP high. Fake Out may be a little overkill considering you've already got Bullet Punch, but a free attack may be worth your time should you need the Leftovers recovery. Whirlwind lets it compete better with Pokemon like Gyarados that like to boost their stats and BP users. Knock Off is generally considered universally useful, as it, well... Knocks Off the enemy's item. Some Pokemon are very item reliant, and Knock Off destroys them. I'd personally go with Whirlwind, especially if you're running SR, Spikes, or both. Once again, Weavile isn't seen with AA often enough that it matters.

    Azumarill @Leftovers
    -Aqua Jet
    -Focus Punch
    -Substitute
    -Waterfall
    Huge Power, Adamant
    252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Def

    Azumarill generally isn't QUITE as good a choice as Hariyama, since it has to invest so much more in HP, doesn't get STAB on Focus Punch, Blissey can T-Bolt, and it doesn't resist Weavile's Night Slash, Pursuit, or X-Scissor, but from my experience, it can take a hit, still have enough to Sub, and get in that Punch and Aqua Jet for the kill, especially on Weavile with Swords Dance. Huge Power sorta makes up for the lack of STAB, but I really think Hariyama would do better.

    Hariyama's more versatile, but Azumarill isn't as easily walled by Ghost types. Both have trouble with Gyarados, but Hariyama can Fling his Flame Orb at the bitch as a final Fuck You before either biting the dust or switching out.

    As I said, though, Blisseys' not quite as common here, and as far as I know, only Bandit (dead?) and Zack use Weavile 'round here.
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    Post by Guest Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:10 pm

    i think instead of kingdra i might use a scarfmortar but the hidden power ice thing is really pissing me off.
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    Post by Shine Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:32 pm

    Zihark wrote:i think instead of kingdra i might use a scarfmortar but the hidden power ice thing is really pissing me off.
    Ask Ryu to hax it? I actually sent Ryu an IV spread myself that oughta be Dojo legal, and still grants HP Ice70 while retaining max Sp.Atk and Spd.

    By the way, Magmortar gives you a third Ground weakness... Hopefully, Aero and Weezing will make up for it. Also, Kingdra provides you with a solid Water attack, and that's not really something you can sacrifice. Weezing gives you an Ice attack and a Fire attack, Jolteon gives you an Electric attack, and there are a couple Water Pokemon that can use Psychic, all of those being common Magmortar attacks, so really, there's not much reason to use him...

    I'd say go with Starmie if you want a Pokemon with that kind of movepool, but it's really sorta unnecessary... And you still should probably have a Ghost type.

    There are still a lot of holes. I'm just trying to get you to think a little more thoroughly.

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