Ice Shard and Stealth Rock petition

As you all know, both Ice Shard AND Stealth Rock have been banned both at Smogon and at the Shuten Dojo. I'm making this petition so that we may have a chance at unbanning these moves here in the Dojo.

Argument against Ice Shard:
Ice Shard was banned primarilly because it hindered the use of such Pokemon as Garchomp, Dragonite, Flygon, and other Pokemon who are 4x weak agaisnt Ice type attacks. One example is that a Weavile with max Atk can OHKO the Dragons with ease using Ice Shard, and makes the use of many other Pokemon more difficult, including the likes of Roserade.

Argument for Ice Shard:
The nature of the Ice type is that it happens to be very good offensively with fantastic type coverage, and Ice Shard only compliments that nature. Weavile isn't used as commonly here at Shuten Dojo as it may be at Smogon, and some Pokemon such as Mamoswine and Donphan practically need Ice Shard in order to be usable. Also, it isn't as if there's no way to conquer Ice Shard. Some Pokemon carry the Thick Fat ability, such as Azumarill and Snorlax, which reduces the power of Fire and Ice attacks by 50%, not to mention that Fire types, Steel types, Ice types, and Water types all naturally resist Ice type attacks to some degree. Ice Shard has a lot of utility, yes, but it is not by any means broken. Besides, Pokemon flows in trends, and with every trend comes a counter-trend. Pokemon like Garchomp and Dragonite became very common, and other trainers responded with Ice Shard. To say that Ice Shard should be banned is to say that the Pokemon which it was built against should also be banned, because if the counter is eliminated, then the original trend can only become broken again. Ice Shard brings balance.

Argument against Stealth Rock:
The main argument against Stealth Rock is that no Pokemon is immune to it, so that anything that switches in on it will take some level of damage. Any Pokemon with the type combos of Bug-Flying (as in Yanmega), Ice-Flying (as in Delibird), or Fire-Flying (as in Charizard), also instantly lose 50% of their heallth simply switching in. It simply supplements the strength of speedy sweepers such as Garchomp.

Argument for Stealth Rock:
Stealth Rock is not unbeatable. Many Pokemon can learn the attack Rapid Spin which nullifies Stealth Rock, including Blastoise, Sandslash, Starmie, Forretress, Donphan, Hitmontop, Torkoal, Claydol, Tentacruel, Cloyster, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Kabutops, Delibird, and Armaldo. Six of those Pokemon even RESIST Stealth Rock damage. Not only can Stealth Rock be removed from the field, but it can also be prevented altogether with Taunt, another move that can be learned by a wide variety of Pokemon. Two popular Pokemon which are often seen with Stealth Rock are Blissey and Skarmory. Primeape, a lowly UU, can Taunt, Close Combat, AND Overheat, not to mention he outruns both Blissey and Skarmory by a longshot. Many Pokemon learn Hypnosis, or Sleep Powder, and three learn Spore. Most of them outrun both Blissey and Skarmory, and can prevent them from ever using Stealth Rock. Once again, trends force the use of Stealth Rock. Focus Sash was introduced to D/P, and so Stealth Rock became the obvious counter BECAUSE no Pokemon was immune to it, so Gengar and other Focus Sash users became much easier to deal with. Stealth Rock also brings balance to Pokemon.

Now you've seen both sides of the argument, and they can and will be altered depending on whatever debates take place. Simply PM me or post in the thread that you want your name on the petition, and if we get enough names, we may just be able to unban two great moves.

List of Names

1) GreetsTheMoon

Um...none of them are banned.

It was a joke.

That worked really, really well.

Actually SR is likely to be. I'm against SR's banning.

Ice Shard however was a joke orchestrated by me and Zack.

lmao.

First off.

JOKE.

Second off.

HERE'S the argument against Stealth Rock.

Greetings ladies and gentlemen, we are in an interesting time for the general Pokemon community. This is a time when several Pokemon and clauses are under investigation by the public as a whole. The goal? To decide what is broken and should be removed, and what does not influence the metagame drastically and we decide should stay. What has not been done before is the banning of broken MOVES. Never before have we deemed any particular move too powerful to merit removal from competitive play. This is all about to change. I bring you the most broken move in the entire metagame: Stealth Rock.

Now you may be wondering what exactly makes Stealth rock worse than its counterpart, Spikes, the answer is very simple ad consists of two parts. The first: No Pokemon is immune to Stealth Rock damage besides Magic Guard Clefable. Yes, every single Pokemon in the game takes damage from it, big or small. This ruins several strategies, including Focus Sash, Sub to Berry, and others. The second point has to do with something much greater, something with will take an entire paragraph to discuss: It does so much damage to Pokemon weak to rock that it ruins variability in the metagame.

The following types are weak to rock: Bug, Fire, Ice, Flying. Some of the better types in the game take 25% from a switch in after the rocks have been laid, and guess what? It only takes one turn to lay them down. These rocks have no counter besides Rapid Spinning, a risky endeavor and a rather pointless one, considering it only takes one turn to set up. Regular spikes have no affect on Pokemon who fly or levitate, take 3 whole turns to put up and deal equal damage to everyone. Toxic spikes are even more limited in who they affect, as they don’t do anything to Grounded poisons (Who in fact remove them), Steels, Immunity Pokemon and everything spikes doesn’t affect. Stealth Rock only has one Pokemon immune to it, and it’s not even an OU Pokemon. Stealth rock reduced variability by a bucketful. When was the last time you saw a Fire type regularly in OU? Or an Ice type outside of Hail teams (Who are still forced to carry a spinner, sometimes two, because of the sheer magnitude of SR’s effect)? Some of the game’s top Pokemon like Salamence are in fact decimated by this move. It is probably not ridiculous to wager that Salamence and Dragonite usage are lower than Garchomp just because Garchomp shrugs off SR with pitiful damage and Salamence and Dragonite take 25% whopping percent. Articuno (Who is one of the game’s better Garchomp counters) takes 50% from it, and so does Moltres (A very solid Lucario counter). Good Pokemon like Yanmega are relegated to lead roles simply because taking 50% off your health is such gigantic a price to pay. Regice, one of the best Special walls of last gen, is no longer used nearly as much! Why? Because Stealth Rock makes it lose a ton of HP on switch in!

Stealth Rocks also reduce the only real counter to Spikes and themselves. Armaldo, Cloyster and Torkoal, all good spinners, are barely used since it’s a crappy spinner who takes 25% on switch in. People argue that some Pokemon overcentralize, well, this move does more than they do. It highly prevents people from using several strategies, countless Pokemon, is easier to set up than it is to bring Wobbuffet in, and to top it off has virtually no decent counters in the metagame. Without this move the metagame would be more diverse with more usuable pokemon! Broken or not? You decide.